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Joule heating using AC voltage

Posted Feb 2, 2012, 7:30 a.m. EST Version 4.1, Version 4.4, Version 5.0 7 Replies

James
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Can I simulate the following phenomenon in COMSOL 4.1?

When AC voltage is applied across a silicon beam, the temperature on the beam will change due to Joule heating and the resulting thermal force will make the beam expand and contract.

I have successfully applied DC voltage across the beam using stationary solver and see the expansion of the beam. But I do not know how to apply AC voltage in this case. Can anyone help? Thanks.

James
7 Replies Last Post Feb 12, 2015, 12:05 p.m. EST
Ivar KJELBERG COMSOL Multiphysics(r) fan, retired, former "Senior Expert" at CSEM SA (CH)
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Posted: 1 decade ago Feb 2, 2012, 7:37 a.m. EST
Hi

check the doc about frequency domain solvers

--
Good luck
Ivar
Hi check the doc about frequency domain solvers -- Good luck Ivar
James
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Posted: 1 decade ago Feb 2, 2012, 8:13 p.m. EST
Hi Ivar

Thanks for your suggestion. I have seen the description for frequency domain in COMSOL‘s user guide and reference guide but it does not tell me how to set AC voltage in frequency domain. I used "The Joule Heating and Thermal Expansion" Interface in my model and I can get right result using stationary solver. But it seems not working when frequency domain solver is used. The temperature and total displacement of the beam are always zero at any frequency point. I think the voltage applied is not right. Actually I used a terminal node to apply DC voltage 1V in the stationary solver. I expect this voltage will be turned into sinusoidal automatically form when frequency domain is used. Am I right?

Hi Ivar Thanks for your suggestion. I have seen the description for frequency domain in COMSOL‘s user guide and reference guide but it does not tell me how to set AC voltage in frequency domain. I used "The Joule Heating and Thermal Expansion" Interface in my model and I can get right result using stationary solver. But it seems not working when frequency domain solver is used. The temperature and total displacement of the beam are always zero at any frequency point. I think the voltage applied is not right. Actually I used a terminal node to apply DC voltage 1V in the stationary solver. I expect this voltage will be turned into sinusoidal automatically form when frequency domain is used. Am I right?
Santhosh Kumar CT
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Posted: 1 decade ago Feb 3, 2012, 2:02 a.m. EST

Hi Ivar

Thanks for your suggestion. I have seen the description for frequency domain in COMSOL‘s user guide and reference guide but it does not tell me how to set AC voltage in frequency domain. I used "The Joule Heating and Thermal Expansion" Interface in my model and I can get right result using stationary solver. But it seems not working when frequency domain solver is used. The temperature and total displacement of the beam are always zero at any frequency point. I think the voltage applied is not right. Actually I used a terminal node to apply DC voltage 1V in the stationary solver. I expect this voltage will be turned into sinusoidal automatically form when frequency domain is used. Am I right?

Could anyone please help me see what the problem is? Attached is my model. Thank you very much.


i dont feel even your stationary solver has some meaningful results ...

You can try the floating potential node with an identity pair and then use the desired frequency . ! hopefully it helps . i am less familiar with electrical systems . !
[QUOTE] Hi Ivar Thanks for your suggestion. I have seen the description for frequency domain in COMSOL‘s user guide and reference guide but it does not tell me how to set AC voltage in frequency domain. I used "The Joule Heating and Thermal Expansion" Interface in my model and I can get right result using stationary solver. But it seems not working when frequency domain solver is used. The temperature and total displacement of the beam are always zero at any frequency point. I think the voltage applied is not right. Actually I used a terminal node to apply DC voltage 1V in the stationary solver. I expect this voltage will be turned into sinusoidal automatically form when frequency domain is used. Am I right? Could anyone please help me see what the problem is? Attached is my model. Thank you very much. [/QUOTE] i dont feel even your stationary solver has some meaningful results ... You can try the floating potential node with an identity pair and then use the desired frequency . ! hopefully it helps . i am less familiar with electrical systems . !
Anosh Daruwalla
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Posted: 1 decade ago Mar 7, 2013, 1:21 p.m. EST

Hi Ivar

Thanks for your suggestion. I have seen the description for frequency domain in COMSOL‘s user guide and reference guide but it does not tell me how to set AC voltage in frequency domain. I used "The Joule Heating and Thermal Expansion" Interface in my model and I can get right result using stationary solver. But it seems not working when frequency domain solver is used. The temperature and total displacement of the beam are always zero at any frequency point. I think the voltage applied is not right. Actually I used a terminal node to apply DC voltage 1V in the stationary solver. I expect this voltage will be turned into sinusoidal automatically form when frequency domain is used. Am I right?

Could anyone please help me see what the problem is? Attached is my model. Thank you very much.



I don't think the frequency domain study can be used with the Joule heating. I faced the same problem when I tried to do something similar. When you select the frequency domain study for joule heating, it shows an exclamation mark in a yellow triangle in the "selecting physics to solve for" menu. It seems like the physics interface is incompatible with that study.

Haven't found a work around yet. Do let me know if anything comes up.
[QUOTE] Hi Ivar Thanks for your suggestion. I have seen the description for frequency domain in COMSOL‘s user guide and reference guide but it does not tell me how to set AC voltage in frequency domain. I used "The Joule Heating and Thermal Expansion" Interface in my model and I can get right result using stationary solver. But it seems not working when frequency domain solver is used. The temperature and total displacement of the beam are always zero at any frequency point. I think the voltage applied is not right. Actually I used a terminal node to apply DC voltage 1V in the stationary solver. I expect this voltage will be turned into sinusoidal automatically form when frequency domain is used. Am I right? Could anyone please help me see what the problem is? Attached is my model. Thank you very much. [/QUOTE] I don't think the frequency domain study can be used with the Joule heating. I faced the same problem when I tried to do something similar. When you select the frequency domain study for joule heating, it shows an exclamation mark in a yellow triangle in the "selecting physics to solve for" menu. It seems like the physics interface is incompatible with that study. Haven't found a work around yet. Do let me know if anything comes up.
Shawn Hung
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Posted: 10 years ago Feb 3, 2015, 1:36 a.m. EST
hi everyone,
I have the same question when doing joule heating using AC voltage.
Any feed back or sharing would be very appreciated,

thanks in advance.
hi everyone, I have the same question when doing joule heating using AC voltage. Any feed back or sharing would be very appreciated, thanks in advance.
Evan Tanotogono
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Posted: 10 years ago Feb 3, 2015, 10:23 a.m. EST
Hi everyone!

I also need clues for similar problem (joule heating with AC voltage).
I will appreciate every clue.

Regards,
Evan
Hi everyone! I also need clues for similar problem (joule heating with AC voltage). I will appreciate every clue. Regards, Evan
Walter Frei COMSOL Employee

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Posted: 10 years ago Feb 12, 2015, 12:05 p.m. EST
Hello All,

You will want to use the "Frequency-Transient" or "Frequency-Stationary" study type which is available when using the AC/DC Module for AC electrical heating. This will solve the electrical problem in the frequency domain and the other physics in either the transient or stationary sense. For an example of the usage of these, please see:
www.comsol.com/model/inductive-heating-of-a-copper-cylinder-148

Best Regards,
Walter
Hello All, You will want to use the "Frequency-Transient" or "Frequency-Stationary" study type which is available when using the AC/DC Module for AC electrical heating. This will solve the electrical problem in the frequency domain and the other physics in either the transient or stationary sense. For an example of the usage of these, please see: http://www.comsol.com/model/inductive-heating-of-a-copper-cylinder-148 Best Regards, Walter

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