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Note: This discussion is about an older version of the COMSOL Multiphysics® software. The information provided may be out of date.

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2D Fluid forcing a turbine to rotate

Posted Feb 6, 2014, 11:39 p.m. EST Low-Frequency Electromagnetics, Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) Version 4.3b, Version 4.4 7 Replies

Chris Mullen
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Hi, I'm reading about a lot of people who want a tutorial on how COMSOL works, and I hope this doesn't come across as that. I'm trying to build a turbine that moves due to the force of a fluid pushing on it. I've been going over other models on the website, but they all seem to be mixers or a rotating part that moves the fluid around it. In my case, it's the reverse, that is, it's the fluid that is making the turbine rotate. My question is, what should I be doing to the "Rotating Machinery, Laminar Flow" section that would simulate the fluid pushing against the turbine and making it rotate? Thank you very much for your help!

ChrisM.
7 Replies Last Post Feb 11, 2014, 4:51 p.m. EST
Marino Miccio
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Posted: 1 decade ago Feb 10, 2014, 6:48 a.m. EST
Hi Chris,

if you want to perform an interaction between a solid and a fluid you should use the Fluid-Structure Interaction physics.
It has the equations and features for fluid-structure interaction, solving for the displacements, fluid velocity, and fluid pressure.
Have a good work.

--
Marino Miccio
Chemical Engineer
marinomiccio.wix.com/home
Hi Chris, if you want to perform an interaction between a solid and a fluid you should use the Fluid-Structure Interaction physics. It has the equations and features for fluid-structure interaction, solving for the displacements, fluid velocity, and fluid pressure. Have a good work. -- Marino Miccio Chemical Engineer http://marinomiccio.wix.com/home
Chris Mullen
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Posted: 1 decade ago Feb 10, 2014, 10:17 a.m. EST
Mr Miccio,

Thank you very much for responding to my question. I found this example on comsol.com:

www.comsol.com/model/download/177375/models.mems.fluid_structure_interaction.pdf

In the pdf file it says, "In the Add physics tree, select Fluid Flow>Fluid-Structure Interaction (fsi)", but the Comsol version I'm using doesn't have that option. Is there another way I can generate the same results?

Thank you,


ChrisM.

Mr Miccio, Thank you very much for responding to my question. I found this example on comsol.com: http://www.comsol.com/model/download/177375/models.mems.fluid_structure_interaction.pdf In the pdf file it says, "In the Add physics tree, select Fluid Flow>Fluid-Structure Interaction (fsi)", but the Comsol version I'm using doesn't have that option. Is there another way I can generate the same results? Thank you, ChrisM.
Marino Miccio
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Posted: 1 decade ago Feb 10, 2014, 10:45 a.m. EST
I think that this physics is the only solution to take in account the interaction between a solid and a fluid phase. It's strange that your Comsol doesn't support it. Which version do you have?

--
Marino Miccio
Chemical Engineer
marinomiccio.wix.com/home
I think that this physics is the only solution to take in account the interaction between a solid and a fluid phase. It's strange that your Comsol doesn't support it. Which version do you have? -- Marino Miccio Chemical Engineer http://marinomiccio.wix.com/home
Chris Mullen
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Posted: 1 decade ago Feb 10, 2014, 6:31 p.m. EST
I'm using Multiphysics version 4.3b. I went through again just in case I missed something, but Fluid-Structure Interaction physics is not there. My version shows:

Fluid Flow
- Single-Phase Flow
- Thin-Film Flow
- Multiphase Flow
- Porous Media and Subsurface Flow
- Non-Isothermal Flow
- High Mach Number Flow
- Particle Tracing for Fluid Flow

I went through each category and looked for the Fluid-Structure Interaction option, but it wasn't there. Is this an additional Module that must be purchased?

Thanks again,


ChrisM.
I'm using Multiphysics version 4.3b. I went through again just in case I missed something, but Fluid-Structure Interaction physics is not there. My version shows: Fluid Flow - Single-Phase Flow - Thin-Film Flow - Multiphase Flow - Porous Media and Subsurface Flow - Non-Isothermal Flow - High Mach Number Flow - Particle Tracing for Fluid Flow I went through each category and looked for the Fluid-Structure Interaction option, but it wasn't there. Is this an additional Module that must be purchased? Thanks again, ChrisM.
Jeff Hiller COMSOL Employee

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Posted: 1 decade ago Feb 11, 2014, 8:25 a.m. EST
Hello Chris,
The FSI capability is in the Structural Mechanics Module and in the MEMS Module (see www.comsol.com/products/specifications/fluid-flow/#Physics%20Interfaces%20and%20Study%20Types_55197).
You can check which modules your license includes by going to File>Licensed and Used Products (in version 4.4) or Options>Licenses (in versions 4.0-4.3b)
Best,
Jeff
Hello Chris, The FSI capability is in the Structural Mechanics Module and in the MEMS Module (see http://www.comsol.com/products/specifications/fluid-flow/#Physics%20Interfaces%20and%20Study%20Types_55197). You can check which modules your license includes by going to File>Licensed and Used Products (in version 4.4) or Options>Licenses (in versions 4.0-4.3b) Best, Jeff
Chris Mullen
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Posted: 1 decade ago Feb 11, 2014, 4:00 p.m. EST
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your response. I checked the license, and it looks like we don't have those two modules. It's a university license, so I think I'm stuck with what we have, unfortunately.

Thanks again for your help,


ChrisM.
Hi Jeff, Thanks for your response. I checked the license, and it looks like we don't have those two modules. It's a university license, so I think I'm stuck with what we have, unfortunately. Thanks again for your help, ChrisM.
Jim Ring
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Posted: 1 decade ago Feb 11, 2014, 4:51 p.m. EST
I am working on a similar problem and am taking a different approach. From what I read you are looking for the torque that the turbine put out not the internal stresses of the turbine. I am attempting to use rotating machinery fluid flow and specifying the fluid flow rate and the rotation rate and asking for the torque of the rotating element as an output.

I would like to be able to do as described above and also solve for stress in rotor, but do not see a path to do this yet.

I am working on a similar problem and am taking a different approach. From what I read you are looking for the torque that the turbine put out not the internal stresses of the turbine. I am attempting to use rotating machinery fluid flow and specifying the fluid flow rate and the rotation rate and asking for the torque of the rotating element as an output. I would like to be able to do as described above and also solve for stress in rotor, but do not see a path to do this yet.

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