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mesh 3D with in nm x um

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Hi,

I am working with 3D structure with various dimension in wide and thickness of blocks.
Overall, my structure has dimension 400 um x 200 um x 3.05 um.
The thickness consists of many thin layers which have nanometer dimension.
I have tried generating mesh even using extremely coarse but still failed to generate mesh.
The error message : Failed to respect boundary element edge on geometry face.
What is this mean?

Anyway, I believe the error is caused by the different dimension unit --> nano meter scale x micro meter scale.
So I tried meshing by each structure.
One of my structure which has 400 um x 200 um x 2 um is having no problem in generating mesh even using extremely fine mesh size.
However, when I tried to generate mesh in structure with 400 um x 200 um x 0.05 um, It was failed ti generate mesh.


Could anyone help me about this? I am an absolute beginner in comsol.
Any suggestion would be very appreciated

8 Replies Last Post Aug 3, 2012, 5:48 a.m. EDT

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Posted: 1 decade ago Aug 1, 2012, 9:05 p.m. EDT
Hi,

Try using swept mesh. Check the document, it is explained well. First select top face and mesh it with free triangular mesh or free quad and sweep it through the thickness. Add a distribution of at least 3/4 for each domain in the sweeping direction.

-Sankha
Hi, Try using swept mesh. Check the document, it is explained well. First select top face and mesh it with free triangular mesh or free quad and sweep it through the thickness. Add a distribution of at least 3/4 for each domain in the sweeping direction. -Sankha

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Posted: 1 decade ago Aug 1, 2012, 9:19 p.m. EDT
You should try extremely fine, not extremely coarse. The size of mesh elements are bigger as they are coarser.

--
Tolga
You should try extremely fine, not extremely coarse. The size of mesh elements are bigger as they are coarser. -- Tolga

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Posted: 1 decade ago Aug 1, 2012, 9:53 p.m. EDT
The problem you are is facing is because the dimensions of your geometry are very small compared to your mesh size. If you use a default mesh and large mesh density (to reduce mesh size), number of elements will be very large. This is because your geometry has domains with very high aspect ratios. Try out fine free triangular followed by sweep. That should work.

-Sankha
The problem you are is facing is because the dimensions of your geometry are very small compared to your mesh size. If you use a default mesh and large mesh density (to reduce mesh size), number of elements will be very large. This is because your geometry has domains with very high aspect ratios. Try out fine free triangular followed by sweep. That should work. -Sankha

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Posted: 1 decade ago Aug 2, 2012, 2:41 a.m. EDT
Hi.. I have tried triangular and swept method.
And it works with basic thin layer structure.. thank you for the helpful suggestion.

How about thin layer which has a hole? I tried triangular and swept it but did not work..

How to solve this kind of structure?

Thank you

Hi.. I have tried triangular and swept method. And it works with basic thin layer structure.. thank you for the helpful suggestion. How about thin layer which has a hole? I tried triangular and swept it but did not work.. How to solve this kind of structure? Thank you

Ivar KJELBERG COMSOL Multiphysics(r) fan, retired, former "Senior Expert" at CSEM SA (CH)

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Posted: 1 decade ago Aug 2, 2012, 2:55 p.m. EDT
Hi

in such cases you might get around by having all layers with the same blocks, that is if you have a hole in 1 layer or more, but not all layers then add a cylinder corresponding to the hole in the rest of the material. This adds some internal boundaries but that is of minor importance. then mesh the surface at the boundary with surface triangular, or quad mesh, and sweep in two steps the side with the hole and the side with the "shadow" of the hole.

This applies for all blocks or holes shapes, you need a imilar topology through a sweep mesh

--
Good luck
Ivar
Hi in such cases you might get around by having all layers with the same blocks, that is if you have a hole in 1 layer or more, but not all layers then add a cylinder corresponding to the hole in the rest of the material. This adds some internal boundaries but that is of minor importance. then mesh the surface at the boundary with surface triangular, or quad mesh, and sweep in two steps the side with the hole and the side with the "shadow" of the hole. This applies for all blocks or holes shapes, you need a imilar topology through a sweep mesh -- Good luck Ivar

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Posted: 1 decade ago Aug 2, 2012, 8:24 p.m. EDT
Hi Ivar,

Thank you fo the response..

I am sorry I'm a beginner, it's kinda hard for me to catch your explanation.

So firstly, I should add the block corresponding to the hole (I have a block hole shape)

2nd, I should mesh the surface with the boundaries

3rd, I should sweep in two step

I dont understand the 3rd step, because to sweep the source and destination should have only one face (please correct me if i'm wrong)
How can I sweep the surface with internal boundaries?


Thank you ..
Hi Ivar, Thank you fo the response.. I am sorry I'm a beginner, it's kinda hard for me to catch your explanation. So firstly, I should add the block corresponding to the hole (I have a block hole shape) 2nd, I should mesh the surface with the boundaries 3rd, I should sweep in two step I dont understand the 3rd step, because to sweep the source and destination should have only one face (please correct me if i'm wrong) How can I sweep the surface with internal boundaries? Thank you ..

Ivar KJELBERG COMSOL Multiphysics(r) fan, retired, former "Senior Expert" at CSEM SA (CH)

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Posted: 1 decade ago Aug 3, 2012, 4:57 a.m. EDT
Hi

You will soon lern the tricks :) the issue with the sweep mesh that the topology must remain, that is if you have 2-3 layers and in the middle an internal geometrical block, not appearing on the two outer layers, then it will NOT mesh via a sweep. But if you cut all 3 layers with the same block, so that the geoemtry topology is the same, but then you use the same material for the two blocks in the outer layers, then a sweep mesh will go throgh correctly.

If you have a hole through part of the thickness of the layers, you must continue the hole shape through all layers, to have the same topology, but then just select the material ones and define correctly the materials. This means internal boundaries of no particular significance, apart to help the mesh. In case of the hole, you must mesh a full surface, so you should start mesh the surface at the bottmo of the hole (in the middle of your layers) then you can sweep over the domains (=volumes) on on eside and on the other side, but in 2 steps to avoid an error message.

Hope it is clearer.
One way is to build a simple model: one block with 1-2 layers, intersecting with a cylinder. You then remove some of the entities to get a geometry as described, one layer with a hole and one or two without. Then try to mesh it with first a surface mesh at the level of the bottom of the hole, with two sweep mesh nodes one below, on eabove the meshed surface

--
Good luck
Ivar
Hi You will soon lern the tricks :) the issue with the sweep mesh that the topology must remain, that is if you have 2-3 layers and in the middle an internal geometrical block, not appearing on the two outer layers, then it will NOT mesh via a sweep. But if you cut all 3 layers with the same block, so that the geoemtry topology is the same, but then you use the same material for the two blocks in the outer layers, then a sweep mesh will go throgh correctly. If you have a hole through part of the thickness of the layers, you must continue the hole shape through all layers, to have the same topology, but then just select the material ones and define correctly the materials. This means internal boundaries of no particular significance, apart to help the mesh. In case of the hole, you must mesh a full surface, so you should start mesh the surface at the bottmo of the hole (in the middle of your layers) then you can sweep over the domains (=volumes) on on eside and on the other side, but in 2 steps to avoid an error message. Hope it is clearer. One way is to build a simple model: one block with 1-2 layers, intersecting with a cylinder. You then remove some of the entities to get a geometry as described, one layer with a hole and one or two without. Then try to mesh it with first a surface mesh at the level of the bottom of the hole, with two sweep mesh nodes one below, on eabove the meshed surface -- Good luck Ivar

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Posted: 1 decade ago Aug 3, 2012, 5:48 a.m. EDT
Thank you so much Ivar for your explanation..

I think I began to understand what you're talking about.
I have to practice and practice..

Have a good day
Thank you so much Ivar for your explanation.. I think I began to understand what you're talking about. I have to practice and practice.. Have a good day

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